tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2918951136804113054.post6104100966283549740..comments2023-06-07T11:11:02.474+02:00Comments on Vasco-Caucasian: Man and dog (updated)Octavià Alexandrehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14569731729402710400noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2918951136804113054.post-75505530843311521952013-07-25T02:41:00.763+02:002013-07-25T02:41:00.763+02:00It does appear that Nostratic *u > *i in PIE wi...It does appear that Nostratic *u > *i in PIE with compensatory labialization of preceding consonants. This probably didn't happen after liquids, nasals, labials, and glides. This would have then given us labiovelars, labiouvulars, and labiodentals. However I also think there was an original series of labiovelars and labiouvulars. It looks like PN *u gave Uralic *u and Altaic *o. Also PN *o gave Uralic *o and Altaic *u. However, there are a number of words beginning with a velar in each language where Altaic has *u but Uralic has a vowel other than *o and PIE has a labiovelar or a labialized laryngeal. I propose that the labial feature was transferred over to the vowel becoming *u. Mordrigarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905659012488502823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2918951136804113054.post-63743881415781141932013-07-24T19:29:00.467+02:002013-07-24T19:29:00.467+02:00I agree with you about the Macro-comparative subje...I agree with you about the Macro-comparative subject. Differentiating borrowed from inherited lexicon does not seem to be considered many times. Sometimes, it seems as though the etymologies are quite forced. AdygheChabadihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02303595735003236434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2918951136804113054.post-15529984231151934902013-07-08T09:09:34.110+02:002013-07-08T09:09:34.110+02:00Yes, it looks like the characters were shoot on a ...Yes, it looks like the characters were shoot on a studio and the background landscape was added aftewards.Octavià Alexandrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14569731729402710400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2918951136804113054.post-68554280016327811032013-07-07T14:40:03.641+02:002013-07-07T14:40:03.641+02:00Nice photoshopped picture for this post by the way...Nice photoshopped picture for this post by the way...AdygheChabadihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02303595735003236434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2918951136804113054.post-62953253344359612152013-06-25T08:07:56.440+02:002013-06-25T08:07:56.440+02:00In my opinion, these words have little in common, ...In my opinion, these words have little in common, apart from meaning 'dog'. Also Berber <b>*kun-</b> can hardly be Latin. I was thinking about earlier contacts.Octavià Alexandrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14569731729402710400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2918951136804113054.post-17750668931763534092013-06-25T05:07:42.718+02:002013-06-25T05:07:42.718+02:00Yes, Berber has many Latin loans due to it's c...Yes, Berber has many Latin loans due to it's contact with the Roman Empire. I just thought about that, thanks for reminding me! Interesting.<br /><br />Also Afroasiatic has *kar-/*kayar-<br />Meaning: dog<br />Semitic: *wakar- 'fox'<br />Western Chadic: *kyara-<br />Central Chadic: *kur-/*kir-<br />Saho-Afar: *kar- 'dog'<br />Low East Cushitic: *kayir- 'dog'<br />Warazi (Dullay): *kaHar- 'dog'<br />South Cushitic: *ta-kur- 'bat-eared fox' 1, 'wild dog' 2<br />(All Militarev and Stolbova)<br /><br />Would that be in that group of cognates also? The labialization would be lost in Afroasiatic?AdygheChabadihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02303595735003236434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2918951136804113054.post-27189623664368438802013-06-24T12:32:55.541+02:002013-06-24T12:32:55.541+02:00As I said in my post, the problem of macro-compara...As I said in my post, the problem of macro-comparativists is they wrongly assume every word is inherited within a genealogic tree structure, but in this and many other cases we're dealing with <i>Wanderwörter</i>.<br /><br />The Berber word is particularly interesting, because it could have been borrowed from some IE language.Octavià Alexandrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14569731729402710400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2918951136804113054.post-47350956772521736422013-06-23T23:24:04.237+02:002013-06-23T23:24:04.237+02:00You forgot to mention
Afroasiatic: *kwVHen- "...You forgot to mention <br /><b>Afroasiatic:</b> *kwVHen- <i>"dog"</i> (Militarev, Stolbova) > <b>Proto-Omotic:</b> *kan <i>"dog"</i> (R. Blench < Bender 1988: 145), (Militarev and Stolbova have *keHen- for Proto-Omotic) which closely resembles <b>Proto-Indo-European:</b> *kwon- (R. Blench < Rabin 1982: 27)<br /><br />Also note under this etymology:<br /><br /><b>Berber:</b> *kun- <i>"dog"</i><br /><b>Western Chadic:</b> *kwin-H- <i>"dog"</i><br /><b>East Chadic:</b> *kany- <i>"dog"</i><br /><b>Mogogodo (Yaaku):</b> kwehen <i>"dog"</i> (All from Militarev and Stolbova).AdygheChabadihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02303595735003236434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2918951136804113054.post-48163568447522322322013-06-22T00:30:03.746+02:002013-06-22T00:30:03.746+02:00Indo-Uralic probably came into contact with North ...Indo-Uralic probably came into contact with North Caucasian languages as they migrated from the east. This contact may have even caused the split between IE and Uralic. It's well known that PIE has a number of phonetic and syntactic similarities with the North Caucasian languages.Mordrigarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905659012488502823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2918951136804113054.post-77246467628895282212013-06-21T15:44:30.211+02:002013-06-21T15:44:30.211+02:00Hi, Ray!
The correspondence between the Uralic an...Hi, Ray!<br /><br />The correspondence between the Uralic and Caucasian forms (both suffixed and unsuffixed) is very striking, and would indicate a closer contact than the other languages, which only have got the suffixed form.Octavià Alexandrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14569731729402710400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2918951136804113054.post-39385458354299789532013-06-20T23:55:14.664+02:002013-06-20T23:55:14.664+02:00This dovetails nicely with my hypothesis that Pre-...This dovetails nicely with my hypothesis that Pre-PIE *qwh > PIE *Hw.Mordrigarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905659012488502823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2918951136804113054.post-83469783898128224912011-06-07T22:57:39.405+02:002011-06-07T22:57:39.405+02:00"Svan xwir- isn't simply 'male', ..."Svan xwir- isn't simply 'male', but also 'male dog'."<br /><br />In all four dialects of the Svan language it means 'male of an animal'. Moreover, in Lentekh dialect, the word has the same root conjugated with another (diminutive) suffix: xw-iča.Tibarenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02413101081517170867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2918951136804113054.post-31841204742534470392011-06-04T21:55:52.025+02:002011-06-04T21:55:52.025+02:00Svan xwir- isn't simply 'male', but al...Svan <b>xwir-</b> isn't simply 'male', but also 'male dog'. Therefore is quite safe to assume it's related to similar 'dog' words outside of Kartvelian.Octavià Alexandrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14569731729402710400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2918951136804113054.post-39680590937052701372011-06-02T21:04:29.625+02:002011-06-02T21:04:29.625+02:00"But you might notice the Svan form doesn'..."But you might notice the Svan form doesn't follow the same root+suffix pattern than the others"<br />Why not? In Svan, there is the same root <i>xw-</i> and another suffix <i>-ir</i>, cf. e.g. Georg. ixv-i 'duck' vs. Svan ixv-ir.Tibarenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02413101081517170867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2918951136804113054.post-43923665832018069442011-06-02T11:47:53.881+02:002011-06-02T11:47:53.881+02:00But you might notice the Svan form doesn't fol...But you might notice the Svan form doesn't follow the same root+suffix pattern than the others, so most likely it doesn't belong to that group but it's one of the 'dog' words I've traced.Octavià Alexandrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14569731729402710400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2918951136804113054.post-90491714854456657582011-05-31T19:55:55.123+02:002011-05-31T19:55:55.123+02:00Actually, Kartvelian root for ‘male’ is *xw- conj...Actually, Kartvelian root for ‘male’ is *<b>xw-</b> conjugated with different suffixes in Georgian <b>xv</b>-ad-i ‘male’; Svan <b>xw</b>-ir ‘id.’; Megrelian <b>x</b>-od-u-a and Laz o-<b>x</b>-od-u (< xw-ad-) ‘to copulate’. <br />Possibly, there is a connection with WCauc. *<b>χʷǝ</b> ‘male’.Tibarenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02413101081517170867noreply@blogger.com